Internet sales wizard Jim Edwards and his business partner Stew Smith discuss why creating solid salescopy is critical to your business.
Check out the Facebook Group – Sales Copy Writing and Content Marketing Hacks with Jim Edwards for a community of over 20,000 like-minded business owners https://www.facebook.com/groups/copywritingandcontenthacks/
Get Copywriting Secrets for FREE – Just pay shipping www.copywritingsecrets.com
and for more information on the wizards used to make outstanding sales copy check out https://copyandcontent.ai.
Don’t want to miss any episodes? Subscribe to “The Copy And Content AI Report” YouTube Channel Here for more information about creating successful sales copy to sell ANYTHING:
Transcript
Jim Edwards: Hey guys, Jim Edwards welcome back to the second episode. Welcome, Mr. Stew.
Stew Smith: Hello.
Jim Edwards: I’m sorry I kind of left you hanging there.
Stew Smith: That’s okay.
Jim Edwards: That’s bad. I’m so used to doing the, “Hey, this is Jim Edwards and welcome to another edition of Sales Copywriting and Content Marketing Podcast Hacks.”
And I totally screwed up the intro, but that’s okay. Y’All know where you’re at.
Stew Smith: Yes, we have a good title so they won’t be confused.
So you know we want to start a podcast, right? And we’re talking about sales copy…
So first of all, the first number one question is why is it important, and do I need to learn how to do it?
Jim Edwards: Okay, well, I think a question to ask even before that is…
“What is sales copy?”
“What qualifies as Sales copy?”
Stew Smith: Or copywriting, sales copy, and copywriting. And copyright to me is, you know, I get a logo, and I get a copyright or trademark, right?
Jim Edwards: Yeah, that’s a trademark. Yes. You write a book, and you get a copyright.
Stew Smith: Get it copyrighted, but that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about copywriting for sales.
Jim Edwards: Okay. If we have anyone else still listening. Here we go…
Copywriting and content creation and sales copywriting, everybody wants to treat them as separate, and they’re really not.
What it is… you creating content with a specific intention of getting people to take a specific action as a result of consuming it.
Whether it be to go to the next step in the process…
Whether it’s to buy something…
Whether it’s to change their thought process…
To open up their mind to new possibilities…
Or, to give them new information…
Or, to see you as a cool person and someone that they should follow.
That’s really the purpose of any content that you’re putting out there.
Now, what specifically is sales copywriting?
And that is putting words and pictures on a page – or in a video, or into an audio – that is designed to get people to take one of typically four actions…
To buy something…
To click a link…
To call somebody on the phone or…
To fill out a form.
Those are typically the only four things that you’re doing with your copy or sales copywriting.
Getting somebody to buy something, click a link, fill out a form, or dial the phone.
Now there’s other stuff you can get them to do…
but those are the main things that you’re going to want to do.
As opposed to content creation, which content and content marketing, if you think about it…
Content marketing is raising people’s awareness about you…
About what you sell…
About the topic…
About a course of action…
About the information that they’re interested in based on their problems and desires.
THAT then creates this chute that they shoot down to where they end up at your sales copy…
And end up taking one of those four actions that we talked about.
So that, in a nutshell, is kind of what sales copy is… and content marketing and content.
And content can be anything, by the way.
Stew Smith: Sure.
Jim Edwards: It can be pictures, it can be text, it can be PowerPoint, it can be videos, it can be recorded videos, it can be Facebook Live, it’s webinars…
It’s anything that you’re putting out there where you’re conveying information to people.
That’s what content is.
Stew Smith: Right. And so definitely on any store page, right?
Where you have a button where people can click and buy, what kind of sales copy do you need?
Not to overexplain anything but real quick short sales copy in one of those situations.
For example, you’re selling a book.
But what do you want to look at?
Where would you get good examples of sales copy for an example?
Jim Edwards: Holy Crap, Stew! How many questions you’re gonna ask me all in one like giant question?
Stew Smith: But it’s all going to be one answer.
Jim Edwards: If you’re thinking about a page and you think about anything that has to do with copy… copy has to…
You have to grab people’s attention and you do that typically with what’s called a “hook.”
Stew Smith: There you go.
Jim Edwards: There can be a headline or typically a hook is going to be a headline…
Or a question…
Or a question in the form of a headline…
Or it’s going to be a title.
It’s going to be that first thing they see that grabs their attention, hooks him in, stops him from scrolling and says,
“Let me see if this is something I should pay attention to or not.”
The best example in the past has been newspapers, though hardly anybody reads newspapers anymore.
So, what you need to think of now as far as a hook or a headline is…
When you are scrolling down your news feed, like Google News…
Those titles!
Those are what make you stop based on that one thing.
You know, you scroll, scroll, scroll, boom, that pops out.
Also, a hook can be a picture.
That’s why you need to pay, real good attention to pictures that make you stop in your tracks.
That’s why you got to have a good product photo.
If you’re doing Ecom, you’ve got to have a really good cover for your book or your ebook.
If you’re selling ebooks, you’ve got to have a real good looking software box.
Whatever you’re selling, you need to have a really good compelling visual representation of it…
Because that’s part of what makes people stop.
And quite frankly now with the way people are being conditioned with social media…
What is stopping people more now is less text and more pictures.
Look at Instagram.
Instagram, the most popular, in my understanding, most popular social media site in the world as far as number of users or amount of time they spend on there.
That’s all based around pictures.
There’s no text!
You don’t see the text unless you click on the picture.
So, and then look at Facebook when you’re going through your Facebook feed…
What do you look at when you are scrolling through that? What stops you?
Most of the time, at least for me and the majority of people, it’s the picture.
Stew Smith: Absolutely.
Jim Edwards: The picture stops you, and then you read the text. So look at Amazon even…
What stops you on Amazon?
Sure you do a keyword search…
But do you look at the pictures first or the titles first?
Most people look at the picture first.
So again, you’ve got to have the hook to stop them and then you don’t have that…
So the hook is a picture, a combination of pictures and some sort of headline or title that can also be a question.
Questions are actually so good at hooking people in and making people differentiate or segment themselves that Facebook is really starting to crack down on using questions in your ads.
I don’t know if you’re aware of that or not…
Stew Smith: No.
Jim Edwards: Questions are so good at making people instantly be segmented that…
They’re actually rejecting ads that start with a question if the question would force somebody to reveal too much about themselves.
I love how Facebook has like morals now, but we’ll leave that alone.
But the second thing is because people have a short attention span. Sales… your sales copy… you have to be super, super efficient with it.
Stew Smith: Yes.
Jim Edwards: So, when we’re talking about product listing pages…
You need to start thinking in terms of bullets.
Not Big long paragraphs, but bullets, self-serving bullets that…
Tell people what’s in it for them in the product, in the book, in the software, in the service…
whatever it is ’cause people will scan the bullets…
And so you’re going to stop them with the hook the picture…
And then they’re going to scan the bullets…
And pretty much when you’re talking about items that are under…
And sure there are exceptions to every rule, but anything under like… whatever a “no brainer” price is in your market….
So maybe 50 or 100 bucks…
That’s all pretty much people are going to base their entire purchase decision on…
And then they’re going to whack that button, and they’re going to buy.
Stew Smith: Well, I won’t ever forget your piece of advice to me was to…
I had 35 ebooks at the time, and so I thought I knew how to sell ebooks.
And then you said, “You need ebook covers for all of these.” So I’m like, “Okay, yeah.”
I listened to you because you know what you’re talking about.
I got ebook covers for all of them, and literally within a month I had a 30% increase in revenue.
Jim Edwards: And how much did you pay on average for each of those covers? Like 10 bucks.
Stew Smith: Yeah, about 10 bucks. I mean I felt bad just charging 10 bucks. So I gave him a $10 tip for each one of them.
Jim Edwards: That’s right.
Stew Smith: He thought I was given $1 million.
Jim Edwards: Yeah. So Fiverr is a great place to go get product graphics and stuff made.
Stew Smith: Absolutely. Okay, so, so that is the picture version of sales copy.
You know, the very number one question is why is it important? Right?
Why do I need to know how to do sales copy or…
Do I need to know how to do sales copy?
Jim Edwards: Okay. Why do you need to know how to do sales copy?
Well, why is sales. Let’s divide that into two questions.
Why is sales copy important?
And then…
Do I need to know how to do sales copy?
So why is sales copy important? I’ll say it really, really simple.
Without great sales copy, you will not make sales.
If you do not make sales, you will not stay in business…
And you get to go put on a hairnet and make fries and other things for people and say,
“Would you like fries with that?”
And there’s nothing wrong with saying, “Would you like fries with that?”
Stew Smith: Nope.
Jim Edwards: But you probably don’t want to do that.
But, in the end, especially now in our gig economy and in the type of world that we’re in right now…
The people who make the most money are…
The ones who can put words and pictures on the screen that cause people to want to pull out their credit card, plug in the digits, and send you money.
If you cannot master that skill…
Then you end up driving for Uber…
You end up driving for Lyft…
You end up delivering food…
You end up doing the gig economy stuff… which sucks…
All right, so if you want to make money, you’ve got to learn how to sell…
And if you want to sell online, you’ve got to be able to come up with really good sales copy…
And content!
That is compelling for your target audience. I mean, that’s it in a nutshell.
I’m not… that’s IT.
Now if that sounds a little harsh or not, you know, no handy-holdy. Tough shit.
Get over that because it’s… you’ve got to learn how to do it.
And if you’re afraid of selling, get over that too. Read a book, inspire yourself, get psychological help, talk with a friend, have an intervention.
But if you’re one of those people that says, “Well, I think selling is kind of dirty, I can’t. Now I know, I think my products sell themselves.”
Bullshit.
Your product or service does not sell itself. It does not.
Sales copy is what sells stuff. Being able to sell.
So if you’ve got a problem with selling and you think you want to make money on the Internet, get over it. Whatever way you can – brain surgery, religious conversion, whatever it takes, get. over. it.
Stew Smith: You know? That’s a really good point. I compare what you just said to my world…
When I’m talking to somebody who is in the military, law enforcement, or firefighter professions…
And they don’t want to workout, right?
It’s that fitness is THAT important to those jobs because one day it will be the difference between living and dying for them…
For their partners…
For someone they’re trying to save it…
It’s THAT important. So copywriting is THAT important.
Jim Edwards: Yes. And, it is THAT important.
Now let’s answer the second question, which was, do you need to be able to write good copy?
And you know, I would tell you this – and I talked about it in my book…
But you need to understand all of the principles of good copywriting:
capturing attention, building curiosity, getting people to take specific actions.
You need to be able to do that.
Now whether you’re the one who does that in your business is up to you.
But here’s the thing, and I don’t want to go too far afield, but like anything…
If you pay somebody to do something for you and your business…
You need to verify that they’ve done a good job.
If you’re the manager or the overall person in your business that is making this happen…
Then you need to know whether somebody has done a good job or not.
Well, if you don’t know what good copy is…
If you don’t know the principles of good copy and then you hire somebody to…
Write a sales letter for you…
Do a video sales letter script…
Write emails…
And you don’t know…
Then how the hell are you going to know if what they’ve done for you is any good or not?
Now, here’s the other question.
Everybody says,
“I want to make $100,000 a year. I want to make $1 million. I want to make $10 million. I want to have this million dollar business.”
Okay? Now think about this a little – My little conspiracy theory person coming out –
Is somebody that you hire on Fiverr to write a sales letter for you for $200 a good enough copywriter that you can leverage that $200 investment into $1 million business?
Meaning if they’re such a good copywriter…
Why are they only charging $200 for the sales copy?
And if there’s such a good copywriter…
Why are they writing copy for you instead of writing copy for their own stuff and selling their own thing?
See the thing I believe with all my heart, and if this sounds like ego… that’s okay. You can get over it.
I am the greatest copywriter in the world that I ever hired. Okay.
I’ve hired other copywriters to do stuff for me. I am the greatest copywriter in the world that I ever hired.
I have written multiple multimillion-dollar sales letters. Multiples. Not just one.
Didn’t just get lucky one.
I have done it multiple times. I can’t even tell you how many times now. All right?
So I decided, I made the conscious decision in 2001 that I was going to get really good at writing copy.
It’s a learned skill.
But just because you decide you’re going to get really good at writing copy…
Doesn’t mean you’re instantly going to be great at writing copy…
But you first have to make the decision.
Then you have to get the education.
Then you have to practice, and you have to get…
It’s like working out.
You decide you’re going to get in shape…
I can do more now…
I can do 10 times more now than what I could do when I started working out with Stew five years ago…
But the fact that I started working out is what was important.
And so, “No.” you don’t have to be the one that writes the copy.
But, “Yes!” you had better be good enough, proficient enough at copy to know whether the copy you’re getting is good enough or not.
And then you need… and we’ll talk about this on a different show…
But then you also have to be the one who’s supervising the testing and the introduction of new copy, new ads, all these different things.
So, you have to know what’s going on at least to be able to manage or oversee the entire process.
Even if you have a project manager, you need to be able to manage the manager of the process.
And this is where the rubber meets the road.
So if, if you can’t figure out what good sales copy is,
if you can’t recognize it when you’re trying to hire other people, then you’re pretty much boned.
Stew Smith: Yes, you need to read this (Copywriting Secrets). They also need to keep joining us with the Sales Copy Hacks.
Give the full speech of the… what this podcast is. The long, long title. It’s got a long title…
Jim Edwards: Copywriting and Content Marketing Hacks Podcast with Jim Edwards and Stew Smith.
Stew Smith: There you go. That’s it. So that is why it’s THAT important. Right? You have any closing remarks there, Jim, for the end of this one?
Jim Edwards: I would just say that everybody needs to become a student of great copy.
Stew Smith: There you go.
Jim Edwards: And it doesn’t mean that you have to be a student like “I’m going to sit down, and I’m going to study this for 10 hours a day…”
Because those people really just drive me ape shit actually, Stew, because they want to come up and debate everything.
And you don’t really debate sales copy, you test sales copy.
And then, what I mean is the only person whose vote counts is the person who does or doesn’t pull out their wallet and buy from you.
And so by becoming a student of great copy, the number one thing to do is pay attention to copy that makes you pay money.
When you buy a product, say,
“Well, why did I buy this?”
Was it the picture? Was the hook? Was it the title?
Was it the bullets? Was it the call to action? Was the guarantee?
Was it the promise? Was it the story?
“What made me come across with money for this?”
And that’s a great place to start because quite frankly, what’s interesting, and you’ll notice this…
Is that most people when you’re selling online… you are natively a part of your audience.
Either you were in the past, you currently are, or you’re a student of it.
Meaning I’m not going to go make a product or do Ecomm for ladies’ lingerie or for, I don’t know, hair regrowth or for any of the things out there that people say,
“Oh my God! That’s a great niche. I got to get into that. That’s amazing.”
You’re, you’re pretty much a part of your niche, especially when you’re first getting started.
And so what you think in your mind, if you’re part of that niche will work on other people in that niche as well.
I know that we’re supposed to channel the customer and all that, but your fears, your problems, your desires, your… all the things that motivate people to buy.
And of course we’re going to talk a lot, at length about this…
There’s so much stuff on this topic for us to talk about…
But ultimately you’re part of the group.
So, right now when you’re studying, and you’re trying to get inside the mind of the customer,
But also see good patterns, pay attention to what makes you buy.
The second thing is you’re going through social media…
Pay attention to what you’re doing instead of just…
my little kitty cat videos.
Kitty cat…
oh UNICORNS! That’s Jim!
Kitty cat… kitty cat…
Unicorns, Jim!
Unicorn… Unicorn… Unicorn…
Pay attention.
What makes you stop?
What are the pictures look like?
Is there a text on the picture?
What are they saying in the text?
What are you paying attention to?
Same thing with online ads. I pretty much am blind to the ads over there on the right side of Facebook.
But when we’re scrolling through there, all the newsfeed ads are the most popular ones.
Which ones make you stop when you’re on Youtube?
How do you decide which videos to watch?
What about the thumbnail pictures makes you stop?
Over on the right-hand side on youtube.
Do you ever look at the advertised videos, the suggested videos, the ones that that are being promoted?
Pay attention to when we all get plenty of email. We talked last episode about how we used to be like, “Email!”
Now it’s like, “Oh shit. Email…”
Stew Smith: Don’t even open it. Delete, delete.
Jim Edwards: Oh, there’s million multi-trillion dollar,
I don’t know… Trillion might be a little much…
But businesses built around helping you NOT read email. I use this thing called Sanebox. I mean, I pay them 100 bucks a year to get email out of my life cause I’m too lazy to hit the unsubscribe button.
So, pay attention to which emails you open.
What about the subject line?
What about the “from” field?
What makes you actually – once you’ve opened it – actually read or not read an email?
You just… you’ve got to pay attention.
And when you see those language patterns…
Then you’re able to really just make…
As you’re going through your life, you can learn great principles of copy and the same thing with content.
Which articles do you read all the way to the end and why?
Which videos do you read?
All the way to the end and why?
I very rarely watch videos all the way to the end…
Because most of them suck.
Stew Smith: Hmm.
Jim Edwards: So, why do you or not consume content? It’s the exact same thing.
Learn from it. So it’s not a question.
You can do this through the course of your day, through the course of your existence.
You don’t have to be like, “Oh my God, I got to study this. I’m going to get up early…”
Stew Smith: It’s constantly. It’s everywhere. We’re bombarded by it.
Jim Edwards: Yes. And what also will happen is you’ll start to see trends of stuff that’s working and stuff that other people stop doing.
That’s another thing to pay real close attention to…
Just because it’s… everybody is like…
“Squirrel!” Squirrel!” Squirrel!” Squirrel!” Squirrel!” Squirrel!”
And they stopped doing stuff. And we’ve talked about this before where we’re doing something.
“Hey, I used to tell stories a certain way, and it worked great.”
And then I stopped. I don’t even know why.
And you go back and do it again, and it still works.
So, just be careful with that too.
Just cause you see people doing something, give it a try. Test.
That doesn’t mean you should stop doing what you’re doing.
And I’ve heard a lot of people proclaimed the death of the one-page sales letter of the big long sales letter.
“Oh, those don’t work anymore.”
That’s bullshit. They work.
But you got to test.
Now the cool thing, and I’ll leave you with this great example of being a student and paying attention.
When we first got started selling, Stew and I both started selling before the turn of the century…
I love saying that the turn of the century…
Half of your explanation in your sales copy was just explaining and making people feel comfortable that they were buying something as a download and they weren’t about to get ripped off.
And now people trust buying online…
it takes less information to sell people…
But!
You still have to give them what they need to kick them over the edge.
So, it might take less… Meaning you don’t need 10 pages…
You might need two pages total of information, but you’ve got to make that two pages count.
Stew Smith: Yeah.
Jim Edwards: And so that’s something else to understand. So those would be my final words of advice.
I can just tell you that when you master this…
And I don’t consider myself a master, I still consider myself a student. Somebody tells you they are master, Eh…
But this is exciting, and all it takes is that one time when you get in that zone…
And you’ve got that sales message…
And everything clicks…
And you start making money…
And you check your email several times a day…
And every time there’s new orders in there…
And people sent you money…
And then when you wake up in the morning…
You’re literally going, “Dang, Dang, Dang. Dang, I was making money.”
You’re going to be hooked.
Stew Smith: Yeah.
Jim Edwards: And the ability to do it is probably the most valuable skill that you can have in business because the person who makes it rain…
It’s that old thing… It’s the golden rule.
“The person with the gold makes the rules.”
Stew Smith: Hahaha!
Jim Edwards: And so if you’re the one that makes it rain in the business, you have, you got a secure future for life. So…
Stew Smith: Nice. All right, well until next time!
Next time, we’re going to discuss the mindset that prevents us from success, right? Internally. What’s going on inside our head.
Jim Edwards: Exactly.
Stew Smith: That prevents us from making successful sales copy.
Jim Edwards: and content.
Stew Smith: and content. There you go.
Jim Edwards: Thank you, everybody, for joining us on the sales, copywriting, and content marketing hacks with Jim Edwards and Stew Smith, and we’ll see you guys next time. Bye Bye, everybody.
Stew Smith: We’ll see you.
Leave a Reply